Initial Test and results

[dillyau]

Hi Folks,

I have now bench tested my first array of plates which I believe would be called a 4n3 config:- + llll - llll + llll -
Using the only SS available at the sheet metal shop was 316L @ 1.6 mm. Pretty heavy to work with especially the drilling. I welded the power connection out of the same 20mm strap 316L that reaches up to the cap connections. Initially I tried it with tap water and KOH (I have KOH I use or my Bio Diesel home production, at 90%) I like more precise figures for testing so the recommended dosage I have read about as a starter of 1 teaspoonful per 4 liters. This worked out on my gram scales at 2.9 per 2 litres. This will give me more prescise control over output (Me thinks ?) I used a bench battery which has sat on the bench for 2 weeks after a routine charging.I connected and got instant response from across the plate array evenly producing. The results happened slowly and I thought it a very low output but was consistant. The container for the test was a 5 inch diameter cereal container which is transparent so very visible I liked the overal production but was surprised to see a brown scum as if there had been some cereal pieces left in. I dumped the tap water and mixed with Demineralised water as there is no distilled water available (Someone might tell me if there is a diference?) I got a good responce again but continued to get a brown water although production was consistant I used 2 other fresh doses of electrolyte. The same outcomes but over munerous short processes I have the following observations.

The brown water is still continuing to produce but much less than previously. The out put from the plates appears to increase the more times it is fired up. Not dramatically, but, very noticeably. Initially the amperage with a stand alone battery at 12.2 Volts gave initially 3 to 4 amps. This also increased over a few more trials. I then attached a 4 amp charger to the battery which produced better outputs, recycling as the amperage hit 3,9 amps but would recycle again. I then moved to the Big Bertha Charger a 10 Amp with an engine starter boost. This increased the output. Leaving it to run for longer periods, the output increased. After numerous startups, for aprox 5 minutes at first to 10 to 15 mins, all things increased steadily. My HHO meter at around 8 amps was giving about .5 liters. I incresed the KOH a liitle at a time and brought up the amperage to 16 to 18 amps. I changed the 3/8" outlet tube to 1/4" with good result, at the end of the sessions I was producing 2 liters per minute at 18 amps. It seem as fair out come although perhaps with the connection to a running engine with alternator also on line I think it may produce more than anticipated, also may lift the amperage and temperature higher than I might like. So a liitle more control of KOH (although a little has a big effect) and no further tests until I have the 30 Amp audio in line fuse and the 80 amp Solenoid in the line. The bubbler and all check valves etc will be needed before any further continuance. SAFETY FIRST!!!!

Please any observations or comments, critique to the posting would be greatly appreciated.
I am finding this exciting and enjoy reading other postings, specially any mistakes, please dont leave these out of postings as we can all learn from each others experiences.

Cheers everyone,

Dillyau
Oz

[dano]

Im new to this so keep that in mind. this sounds really cool but i have a few questions. they say one of the biproducts is water but its also the main product. So what i want to know is. Is this water going into the cylinders, mixing with the lubricating oil and exiting the exaust valves, and if so what kind of prolonged efect would this have. (IE) rust on the cylinder, valves, exhaust manifold, cadaletic converter, etc.

[rmgray]

To Dillyau.........

Many thanx for sharing your test results.Keep on truckin' along.........

Newguy/rmg.hydro-tinker

[EddieRock]

Dillyau,

Try a few things to fix the HHO brown water problem...

Try this First:
----------------
Soduim Hydroxide
Advantages:

Electrodes stay clean
Cheap
95 - 100% pure HHO (oxygen hydrogen) Gas production with right generator design
Safe
This is recommended

Disadvantages:Not available everywhere

Try this Seond:
------------------------
Use White Vinegar:
Advantages:

Stainless electrodes stay clean
Available everywhere
Cheap
Safe

Disadvantages:Smells
---------------------------

Try not to get too much HHO by using lots of amps. Use a large number of generators (smaller). This will keep the generators cool.

EddieRock

[event-horizon]

Sodium Hydroxide and "clean water" is the best for maximum, efficient (low temp/amp) HHO gas generation. When you pay attention to details,keep records ( catalyst amount, catalyst type etc.) and replicate at least three times and you will have a base for further expansion, but not yet,. Have or did you condition the cell or plates for max production ? Well have to go for a bit, more topics to touch on E-V

[FuelFox]

I have this suggestion, to help keep the plates clean.
It may seem a little complicated, but it is not if you can connect some 6 extra wires and a small electronic circuit... Maybe someone who is in the process of testing a beta model of his HHO generator can try this.

A lot of the problems with plates in electrolysis hookups are caused by the fact that ions of all kinds tend to go to the plate where they are attracted to and cling to them, after being depolarized. In lots of applications of this technique this is just what we want, but in an HHO generator it is just annoying.

So what if you connect the HHO generator to a relay, such that you are able to automatically reverse the + and - pole regularly?

Could be with a simple relay, like the ones you see in cars, controlled by a timer circuit. Every x minutes the relay is energized for the same amount of x minutes that it is off. The current through the plates is reversed and ...

Anyone who has a test-setup on his workbench could try to keep the plates clean, by reversing the polarity a few times by hand and observe the difference, if any. I expect it will make a difference...
For the yield of HHO it doesn't make difference how the current runs through the electrolyte.

Fox

[hogwater]

Great information sounds like you have the start of a good unit..The only things I would say is as you mentioned the rate may increase in actual application so you may need to set it up lower on the bench to keep it cool.Also it sounds more like the brown was from the tap water and maybe the film on the plates and other parts so it may get less as you cycle it.You can make your own distilled water with a bucket some plastic a cup and a rock(stone).The thing is simple once you see one.Keep going and let us know how itdoes.

[AHI]

Distilled and De-Ionized water are not the same. I had the same problem with finding distilled water here in the UK. Only about 5 companies produce it 4 of them for volume sales only. You can get it on the web but it is expensive and transport costs add to that expense.

Here's a way of producing Distilled water quickly and quite cheaply. You'll need an old working fridge and somewhere to put it. Get rid of the shelves. You'll also need a closed top container made out of Stainless Steel .
I wouldn't use glass. Drill a hole through the lid of the container big enough to take the diameter of pipe you will be using. Use high temp, flexible tube. Drll another hole through the side of the fridge and push the pipe through into the container, use some high temp sealant around each drilling. Start the fridge so that you chill everything down before you start producing steam.

You'll now need a largish old fashioned spout kettle. Fill it with water and start it boiling. You'll obviously need a heat source. Connect your hose to the kettle and you'll start making your own distilled water. Make enough water so that you can store some in closed top glass bottles. Make sure it cools down before you start decanting. Make sure the kettle doesn't boil dry.

A couple of tips. The cooling container (condenser) must hold more water than the kettle. The bigger the better. A 316 SS container is best. If a magnet sticks to it it isn't 316. Do not use any other metal container. If you have a tight closed top condenser you'll need to vent it to atmosphere. It means drilling another couple of holes but you dont want the fridge filling with uncondensed steam. Make the vent small, this will restrict the amount of steam lost but will allow the container to fill up without causing pressure build up. When you've finished switch the fridge off, leave the fridge door open to stop any mould forming. Wipe the inside dry.

Purists will say that no metal at all should be used for the condenser. Your generator will have SS plates so using an SS condenser will not make any difference.

AHI

Once you've done this you can make as much distilled water as you need quite cheaply and quickly.

[55blue]

I am using distilled water but the + side still turns black in just a few days. The electrolyte turns brown and a brown/black crud forms in he jars. It doesn't seem to affect HHO production... just unsightly. About every 6 weeks I just throw the old stuff out, rinse my jars and replace it with a mixture I keep ready to go. Takes about 10 min

I buy distilled water from the pharmacy mix 1-3 teaspoon of baking soda and 1-2 caps of hydrogen peroxide to 4 l of water. It doesn't blow 10 amp fuses this way and it still produces gas. I am in the process of re-designing my electrodes using stainless steel plates instead of wire. I may have to re-think my mixture afterwards.
Blue

I would be interested in knowing what others are using as an electrolyte and does your plates or wires corrode up as badly as my mixture.
Because I add windshield washer anti freeze to my mix, I find that I have to up the amount of baking soda to get enough HHO to form. Still experimenting!

[d4cam2000]

Im new to this so keep that in mind. this sounds really cool but i have a few questions. they say one of the biproducts is water but its also the main product. So what i want to know is. Is this water going into the cylinders, mixing with the lubricating oil and exiting the exaust valves, and if so what kind of prolonged efect would this have. (IE) rust on the cylinder, valves, exhaust manifold, cadaletic converter, etc.

Well Dano, I'm also new to this but in my opinion what happens is that the water molecule breaks into simple atoms. That is 2 atoms of hidrogen and 1 atom of oxigen. The gas enters the combustion chamber and is burnt there with the mixture of gasoline.