electrotite types

[Miclo]

Does the use of various electrolytes and/or catalysts such as sodium hydroxide, potassium, potassium carbonate, et el create a hazardous waste material that is difficult to dispose of when it comes time to flush out the HHO cell? I was told that Baking Soda was the only non-polluting catalyst to use. Will someone please set me straight on these two points?

[Mario]

Hi Everyone

I have just read of a guy having great success using 100% pure distilled white vineger as electrolite/catalist. Anyone heard of this? He claims it keeps his hho gen clean as a whistle and produces more hho at lower amps than almost anything else. Has anyone played with this?..........................Newguy/rmg

I built my power cell using the instructions provided by HYBRID Water Power.com and followed
the instructions very carefully. On page 91 of the e-book he mentions somebody using pure distilled vinegar, so this is what I used because this is not caustic or dangerous and I wanted to avoid this issue for safety reasons.
Since there is no mention as to how much to use, I started with one gallon of distilled water and added one
cup of vinegar in an open container, then I immersed the power cell into the solution, made the necessary
connections to my truck battery with jumper cables and started up the engine. It immediately started making
bubbles but not in great quantity, then I added one more cup, then another and one last one for a total of 4 cups of vinegar to one gallon of distilled water. The HHO production was not impressive and I threw the whole
mixture away thinking, what if I use only vinegar and no water? So I did, this really worked and the difference was clear, I thought this was the way to go. I poured enough pure distilled white vinegar in the HHO container to completely cover the plate assembly, buttoned up the system and made all the connections.
I was ready to go and try my new toy and see If it would really increase my mileage. I told my wife to get ready because we were going out for a trial run. We went directly to the Valero gas station close to the house and I topped the gas tank all the way to the brim. We drove from San Antonio to San Marcos and back
for a total distance of 71.8 miles. When we got back we went straight to the same Valero gas station and re-
filled the tank all the way to the brim again, it took 2.9 gallons, 71.8 divided by 2.9 equals 24.75 MPG for my 2005 Toyota Tundra V6 with a 4.0 liter engine doing 70 MPH on auto speed control.
Now the BAD NEWS : I finished my system on 1-12-2009 and last Sunday 2-8-2009 I noticed on the sight tube
that the liquid had a reddish tint and I wondered why. Last Thursday 2-12-2009 I removed and opened the system and the vinegar had turned a nasty dark red liquid, I poured out the liquid in a clear plastic container
and it had a lot of gunk and sediment floating around. I examined the plate assembly and it was all covered
in a grayish looking sediment. Before I took it out of the truck, I disconnected the supply line to the air intake and put it in a bucket of water, I started the engine and waited about ten minutes with the system on
and not a bubble came out of the supply line, the system had just quit working. It only worked 27 days and less than 600 miles. To me this is clear evidence that white distilled vinegar is not a good elecrolyte!
Can anyone tell me if I did something wrong that caused this failure? I had to disassemble the plate array
and thoroughly clean up every plate, tomorrow I will start putting every thing together again and this time I
am going to use KOH flakes. I ordered 2 pounds from AAA-chemicals.com in Houston for $18.16 total which
included state tax and shipping charges, I got the product in 2 days.
I hope my experience will help those of you who were considering using White distilled vinegar, good luck!
Mario

[55blue]

Where can I find potassium carbonate and what is it's home or industrial use?

I am using water, peroxide and baking soda. I can make it strong enough to blow 20 amp fuses on a 3 jar system. I do not know my output but if it packs up the truck starts doing strange things and running rough so I assume it is working correctly. The problem is that my mixture gets reddish brown in just a few miles. It doesn't seem to affect the HHO output but I must refresh the mixture every so often. I check it by turning on the ignition and watching to see how many bubbles are forming. ( NO! I don't try to count them!) Keeping the system cleaner would be a bit more pleasing ot the eye but I doubt it would work any better. I have also experimented with allowing just a bit of agitation by letting in just a bit of air to get water vapor into the mix.
I am definitely looking for advice and input from others.
I'm game to try something that keeps my jars cleaner as long as it doesn't detonate with me watching!
Blue

[billhac]

i have been using sodium hydroxide for about a year now on several cars, and it still turns brown every now and then but i change the electrolyte about once a month and it stays freash and clean looking in side the generator

[55blue]

I have changed to a mixture of 4 tablespoons of potassium hydroxide, an ounce of hydrogen peroxide and a half cup of vinegar in a gallon distilled water.It really makes bubbles which I assume are HHO gas.( It burns!) The jars look as if they are sitting on a stove under low heat. That is how much agitation there is in the jars.
Since my first trial with this mixture I have put on 300 miles worth of driving and I am quite pleased with the solution from the standpoint of keeping the plates clean.I also allow air to be drawn in to form bubbles in the first jar on my string of three to allow water vapor to enhance the mix and also to force the incoming air through a water bath just in case there is any small particles of dirt being carried along with it. The inlet hole is very small so I doubt this would be a problem even in dusty conditions but it makes me feel better to be safe rather than sorry.
I know the system works but my " gains " are so small ( no more than 10%) I am really getting discouraged. I have had EEFIE's from Eagle research on my truck since the beginning and still have very limited gains.I have adjusted them from 0 to 475 mv and back down to 200 mv at this time since I was getting codes that showed " no switching" on banks one and two.
I started with the 2 wire/ baking soda grade 6 experiment from W4G and progressed to a 6 plate configuration in each of my cells and still no real increases in mileage even when my production has increased many time over the original trials. Each plate is 2x5 (60 sq, in per cell x 3 = 180 sq in total production area) in 304 grade SS with
wiring +n--n+ the cells in series.
I have considered making a larger system out of ABS pipe, or a SS water tight box with a bunch of plates inside, more amps, etc but I need to get positive results before I spend any more money and play around with ideas I
have garnered from around the net from other experimenters.
I am trying to get some decent mileage out of a 2003 Ford F150 with a 5.4 L engine.( currently running 13-14 MPG Imperial) Has anyone else worked with this engine? What are your settings on your EEFIE's? What kind of mileage gains are you getting?
Sorry for the epistle but I am tired and grouchy after so many hours spent in "failure". The upside is that it has developed a life of it's own and keeps the mind active and the motor clean.

[billhac]

blue,
does your truck have a map/maf sensor on it? if it does I have gotten good gains from my truck with an EFIE along with a maf sensor enhancer, you might try using one of those and calculate gains, you should see some good ones then, its a pretty simple circuit just search for it

[55blue]

bilhac,
Fords, particularly later model Fords, have a MAF sensor. I am experimenting with a small resistor on the sensor return line. I am still in the early stages but 15 ohms makes the scanner go to the 9999 reading when I am on the highway and lift my foot off the throttle and allow it to coast and my mileage went to 18.76 mpg when tested over a 70 mile course. This leads me to believe that this may be the right one, but as I have already stated, I am in early test stages. I have tried 10 and 15 ohm in parallel ( comes out to 26.5 Ohms) and the mileage in 100 kms went down. I don't have any readings for the 10 ohm resistor yet but it doesn't matter which one I have in there, it makes my scan gauge readings pretty useless at least as far as mpg, miles to empty, etc are concerned.
I think this set up is the same as a "MAF enhancer" for about $1.00 worth of parts. It would be handier to have a plug in version/variable for the Ford since there is a ready made plug right beside the intake air box but beggars can't be choosers!
I have my EEFIE,s set at 225 mv and am avoiding playing with them to avoid changing too many things. Anyone else have EFFIE's on a Ford 5.4L? What are you set at and what kind of mpg are you getting?
Have fun everyone.

[billhac]

blue,
you should be good then i think that the maf sensor enhancer is just a 33 om and a 10k om pot. so your on the right track

[lgurvey]

Vinegar, Baking Soda and other may be fine but they all have their drawbacks. After testing numerous different formulas, the best one for all year usage comes from http://www.aaa-chemicals.com. It is a mixture of KOH, Methanol and Distilled Water. With 316L Stainless is produces plentiful amounts of HHO gas and minimual residue. With the Platinized Annodes we use, it produces no reside at all and produces about 3L of gas per minuet.

[fathertynm]

I have used baking soda and I am here to tell you that I will not use it again it is dirty it will dirty up your electrolite and cause sediment in the bottom of your generator. I have also used house hold lye and it works great after a year the generator is still clean no sediment but it will cause a coating on stainless steel generators and I have been instructed by my generator provider that I will have to load the generator with acid and reverise polarity for 2 hours. Right now I have a discusstion going that I could disassemble the generator and soak it in acid and he is willing to try that and when I do to let him know how it works.