HHO Verses others?

[scott]

hi,

i am new to this group but intend installing an HHO kit on a one litre toyota. its fuel consumption is already good averaging 53 mpg (that is UK gallons). I am intrested to see if there is any improvement.
in addition to this i am looking to convert a Ford KA to be solely electric for my parents. besides the environmental benefits this also has great tax advantages in the UK.

what i want to do is gain an understanding of the relative merits of the various approaches to moving away from the direct use of fossil fuels.

my question is - has anyone here or anywhere else tested these approaches and published any conclusions. i really think the simplicity of the HHO system in that it seems to be the easiest to install makes it stand out for me but i would welcome thr thoughts of others.

scott

[event-horizon]

Hello Scott, Good to hear of your intrest. One question when did Toyota introduce a 1.0 ltr. and in what chassis?
How does UK gallons(?) (I may be getting old but when did the UK go to the USA measure of petrol (gasoline)? )fit into a 53 mpg ( mpg? do you not mean kilometers ??) query? As to the conversion to electric is is a good idea IF you can afford it. If in fact your parents are fit enough to push the Ford Ka to a recharge station then by all means do so. The fact is that YES one can convert to all electricity but at what cost? The off the shelf battery can not take the charge/discharge abuse for a conversion ( so easy to get off to track of what you and I are doing our best to better ourselves and the world we all live in). The UK , AU along with the USA and many other countries And some( quite a few) ((that I will not mention because of fear of reprecussion)) have long used and have been working with HHO. Well enough of that banter, sorry I got off the track.take care

[scott]

hi event horizon,

many thanks for the reply, i do appreciate it.

the UK have always used gallons and miles, we have not gone metric. our miles are the same distance as those in the USA but a USA gallon is 10% less than a UK gallon. i mentioned this in the posting so that correct conversions could be used.

the car in question is the toyota aygo which has a 3 cyninder 1litre fuel injected petrol engine.

i have decided to go the HHO route for my first conversion. any websites, documents etc you could recommend for a complete beginner would be appreciated.

regards
scott

[event-horizon]

Hello Scott, sorry about the confusion. Here in the States there was vehicle marketed by GM call a Sprint which is a three cylinder and there was even a turbo version, never really cars to research its lineage. But any who, you mention HHo as your first conversion as opposed ? A bit more info would be helpfull, I can supply you with some links for more HHO info but maybe a personal message Querry would be better. This site has quite a bit of info in its self. Info overload may cause a minor setback. Tkae care, E-H

[alanjohn]

Hello Scott; My wife has a 2008 Prius that with the huge battery and electric motor bumps 500 volts. Be very careful. I'd want to find someone familiar with the car. Our engine is a 1.5. If you have one earlier than 2004
the battery is different, just be careful. We got $3000.00 for going green. I'm told that my Ford Ranger will afford a $2000.00 tax credit for having a cleaner engine, better mph, more power, and a cleaner planet for we tree huggers! Isn't HHO phenominial?

[AHI]

A US gallon is 3.78 litres. An Imperial gallon (UK) is 4.54 litres. That's about 20% difference. A vehicle that does 53 mpg on an Imperial gallon will only do 42.5 mpg using the US gallon. A mile is 1760 yards as opposed to a US country mile which is ??? . I'm in the UK Scott, if you like e-mail me tonyive@supanet .com

AHI

[55blue]

Hi Folks,
I have been piddling with the w4g conversion system for about a year and don't have much to say about successfully changing a 2003 Ford 5.4l engine into anything that could be called economical. The promise of 50% or 100% just can't be met even using a 3 generator system. The best I have achieved is in the 8-10 % range. I have had a lot of fun learning about a system that SHOULD work and likely will on an engine that is carburated where you could play with timing and float levels ,etc, or on a diesel that doesn't have a lot of O2 sensors messing you up.
I have added EFFIEs to the downstream side as well only to be defeated by the OBC working in concert with the MAF and O2 sensors on the down(exhaust) side. I have adjusted the EFFIEs from 350 mv all the way to 475 mv with no appreciable difference in fuel consumption. The only thing that happens is I get codes that need to be cleared. Another thing you will need is a scanner so you can reset your own codes. Goodness knows, you will get enough of them! As far as I know, there is no one making a reliable unit that will trick the MAF sensor and I have seen a few advertised but so far have heard of no REAL success stories.
The best I have achieved is a clean burning engine and exhaust system. I live in a small city and have found that I can drive 2 tanks within the city limits (10-14 Imperial mpg once converted) where the speed limit is all below 60 kph and my tail pipe still looks as if I have just come off the highway on a high speed run.
There are some things I have not done in an effort to up mileage and that is placing extenders on my O2 sensors. Just not feasible on an 03 Ford truck. The exhaust system would have to be dropped off the manifold in order to do it. I haven't wrapped them in aluminum foil either for the same reason. Both of these tricks are supposed to work. I have already invested more money than I will get in return before my truck needs to be traded off so until I get some meaningful results, I am just going to play with what I have and learn some new stuff from other folks playing with this system.
Have fun y'all.
55Blue

[billhac]

hello blue, maybe i can help, do you know the actual liters per minute that your generators put out, I have run a lot of tests and used hho on all types of cars and i have estimated that it takes about 1lpm of hho per 1liter of engine displacement to see any real gains, so that means that if you have a car that has a 2.2 liter engine,you need about 2.2 liters of hho to see good gains, i am currently working on a truck and tring to run it 100% on hho gas ans have had some promising results, just waiting on some new parts to come in and then I will be testing again

[55blue]

Thanks for the added info. You have just touched on what I have been suspecting for a long time now.... not enough HHO produced. As I stated, I am using a 3 jar system and have messed with mixtures, anodes and cathodes to try to get a larger volume. I don't actually know how much HHO I am producing but I have changed from stainless steel wire electrodes to SS Plates I picked up at a machine shop throw away bin. The volume has definitely gone up but I am still playing with the mixture to get a more active catalyst.It appears I am going to have to generate a lot of HHO since I have a 5.4L engine. If I disconnect the system or blow a fuse, the engine definitely runs rough if it runs at all so I know I am getting some " benefit" from the system. I have read about some other mixtures but one of them produced chlorine gas as a bi-product but kept the plates clean. I won't be messing with that one!
I am adding more bi- carb of soda and want to get it to a point where I can keep the heat down and not blow 20 amp fuses. Another problem here in southern Saskatchewan is winter. I am using a mixture that contains 20% anti freeze for obvious reasons and I think it screws up my ability to produce gas. It would take too much time to explain all I have tried to get to this point but I am definitely going to try to get my output up. As I stated before, I am going to have to see some moderate gains before I spend more money making the new generator system or start playing with a MAF tricking gizmo.I am almost certain the problem , at least in part, is my inability to trick both the MAF and O2 sensors to lean out my F/A mixture.

My next truck will be a diesel. Then I can start all over again! What a learning curve.
Blue

[billhac]

I think you are on the right track blue, dont like the antifreeze though but i have not been in that situation before so I may do the same, lets see if we can get the output up a little more though, if you can tell me how you arranged your plates?, like +-+-, or +n-, then what are you using for a catylist?, like baking soda, I use soduim hydroxide and get great results, you can get it at a hardware store just look for drain cleaner, hopefully that will help, and will keep the cost low to, if you need any more help just let me know, you might need some electronic componets also to get good gains but i can point you in the right direction there to